Unit Commendations - What a mess

[John Asendorf]

OK... here goes.

I'm dedicating all new development to the Unit Commendations.

Here's what I think I know:
[list=]
Army wears unit commendations which have a gold border on the right side.
All other forces wear them on the left with their regular rack.
Some unit commendations always have a gold border, some always do not have a gold border, some can but don't always have a gold border... which is which, I don't know.
Non-Army wearers who have unit comms with gold frames wear them with a smaller gold frame - those same awards are worn with larger gold frames on the Army right side.
The non-Army gold frame worn on the left side slightly overlaps the adjacent ribbons.
[/list]

So, this is what I need to happen/do...

Can someone(s) help me gather up the information on these comms.

Here are the comms I know about (from http://ultimaterack.ajandj.com/ribbon_s ... 0_8_22.pdf 29-11 page 275-276):
Presidential Unit Citation (Army and Air Force)
Presidential Unit Citation (Navy)
Joint Meritorious Unit Award
Valorous Unit Award
Meritorious Unit Commendation (Army)
Navy Unit Commendation
Meritorious Unit Commendation (Navy)
Air Force Outstanding Unit Award
Air Force Organization Excellence Award
Army Superior Unit Award
Navy “E” Ribbon
Coast Guard Unit Commendation
Coast Guard Meritorious Unit Commendation


Also, we have the new Air Force:
Meritorious Unit Award (Air Force)
Air Force Gallant Unit Citation


What I need to know is, for each ribbon:
1. Gold Border Status (GBS): always, never, sometimes
2. Whether they are worn on the other services' racks (all four other services)

And, I need to know if the things I think I know from above are accurate.

Let's get started! I've already started creating the behind the scenes equations and graphics so, if I could get definitive answers to these questions I can put this particular issue to rest once and for all.

Thanks in advance,

John

[PA-SGT]

John, none of the Air Force unit Awards have gold borders. The presidential and joint meritorious Unit awards are worn with the smaller gold border as well as the older Vietnam era unit awards. As you stated they are all worn with the other awards. I will see if I can dig up the criteria for each of these awards and forward them on to you

PA-Sgt

[gjones]

-Army wears unit commendations (which have a gold border) on the right side. -- I believe this to be true
-All other forces wear them on the left with their regular rack. -- True, except for Navy, Marine, and Coast Guard Full Dress (i.e. wearing full size medals) uniforms; where ribbon only awards (which all unit comm. are) are worn on the right breast
-Some unit commendations always have a gold border, some always do not have a gold border, some can but don't always have a gold border... which is which, I don't know. -- some do and some don't, but the only award that I know that is either/or is the AF expeditionary medal which is not a unit award
-Non-Army wearers who have unit comms with gold frames wear them with a smaller gold frame - those same awards are worn with larger gold frames on the Army right side. -- news to me, I didn't know there were different sized frames
-The non-Army gold frame worn on the left side slightly overlaps the adjacent ribbons. -- as I don't have any ribbons with frames I am not sure, but from pictures I have it appears that the ribbon fits inside the frame vs. the frame goes around the ribbon and the other services do not have any spaces between rows so I can not figure how you would make your rack if the frame were bigger (I remember trying to slide my ribbons onto the rack and it was tight!)

The laurel leaf pattern of the gold colored frame is worn with the open end of the 'V' pointing upward.

The Navy, Marine Corps, and Coast Guard regs have a restriction on inter-service wear of ribbons with no equivalent.

-Army Presidential Unit Citation, GBS = Always, Oth Svc = all.
-Navy Presidential Unit Citation, GBS = Never, Oth Svc = all.
-Air Force Presidential Unit Citation, GBS = Always, Oth Svc = all.
-Air Force Gallant Unit Citation, GBS = Never, Oth Svc = all except Navy, Marine, and CG.
-Joint Meritorious Unit Award, GBS = Always, Oth Svc = all.
-Air Force Meritorious Unit Award, GBS = Never, Other = all.
-Army Valorous Unit Award, GBS = Always, Oth Svc = all except Navy, Marine, and CG.
-Navy Unit Commendation, GBS = Never, Oth Svc = all.
-Air Force Outstanding Unit Award, GBS = Never, Oth Svc = all.
-Dept. of Transportation Outstanding Unit Award, GBS = Always, Oth = all.
-Coast Guard Unit Commendation, GBS = Never, Other Svc = all.
-Army Meritorious Unit Commendation, GBS = Always, Oth Svc = all.
-Navy Meritorious Unit Commendation Ribbon, GBS = Never, Oth Svc = all.
-Air Force Organizational Excellence Award, GBS = Never, Other Svc = all except Navy, Marine, and CG.
-Coast Guard Meritorious Unit Commendation, GBS = Never, Other Svc = all.
-Army Superior Unit Award, GBS = Always, Other Svc = all except Navy, Marine, and CG.
-Coast Guard Meritorious Team Commendation, GBS = Never, Other Svc = all except Navy and Marine.
-Navy 'E' Ribbon, GBS = Never, Other Svc = all, except Marine.
-Coast Guard 'E' Ribbon, GBS = Never, Other Svc = all, except Marine.
-Coast Guard Bicentennial Unit Commendation, GBS = Never, Other Svc = all except Navy and Marine.
-Philippine Republic Presidential Unit Citation, GBS = Always, Other Svc = all.
-Republic of Korea Presidential Unit Citation, GBS = Always, Other Svc = all.
-Republic of Vietnam Presidential Unit Citation, GBS = Always, Other Svc = all.
-Republic of Vietnam Gallantry Cross Unit Citation, GBS = Always, Other Svc = all.
-Republic of Vietnam Civil Actions Unit Citation, GBS = Always, Other Svc = all.

[Ben Shotalot]

Ok, here is what I know and since I have been in both the USMC and the Army I can shed some light on this.

Only the Army has the gold frame on the OUTSIDE of the full size ribbon. Thus, these ribbons can not be worn amongst all the other ribbons when worn by the other services.

The other services can wear these ribbons but the frame has to COVER the edge of the ribbon so the ribbon is the same size as the rest and can be worn with all the other ribbons in a rack.

The Air Force and Navy/USMC unit ribbons never have gold frames, with one exception the Air Force PUC.

The Joint MUC comes in TWO sizes: One with the frame on the outside of the ribbon and the other with the frame that covers the ribbon.

So does the Army and Air Force PUC. The Army wears the large version and the Air Force wears the smaller version.

Now here is a problem...... If I was a Marine and attached to an Army unit and was awarded a Army unit award, I would have to make my own version of it by buying the Army framed version, then getting the smaller version of the JMUC and taking that frame off and putting it onto the army ribbon so that it could be worn in my rack. The only time I would have not have to do that is with the Army PUC. I would just buy the Air Force version.

All services can wear any other services unit award if the service man earned them.

Only the Army has decided that a soldier will wear a unit award while being in that particular unit that was presented it, even if it was presented the award during WWII and the soldier just joined the Army. When the soldier leaves the unit he is no longer authorized to wear it and has to take it off. Being a former Marine it makes no sense to me, but someone in a higher pay grade thinks it leads to unit pride, or something.

All FOREIGN unit awards can be purchased in both the smaller version and the larger version so all services can wear them.

Can someone confirm if I have my facts straight?

I can wear the Army PUC, the Navy/USMC NUC, and the Navy/USMC MUC. Since I now wear the Army uniform the Army PUC will look larger than my other two awards because of the frame, the actual ribbons are the same size. The gold frame of my Army PUC is NOT supposed to overlap my other unit awards. I have to make it so that the frame just touches my other unit award. So I have a PUC, a NUC, and a MUC.

And for this rack builder I would make all the ribbons the same size, framed or not. It would make everything symmetrical and easier for the coding, etc., on the web page. We are not actually going to wear them!

It would be great if we had a ARMY 'UNIT' RACK BUILDER as an option because I had to cheat and say I was a Marine and selected those unit awards I earned (I did not check any other ribbons) and created a seperate rack for my "right side" unit rack.

[Ben Shotalot]

These links may help you:

Army
http://www.foxfall.com/fra-aua.htm

Air Force
http://www.foxfall.com/fra-afua.htm

Navy/USMC
http://www.foxfall.com/fra-nua.htm

Coast Guard
http://www.foxfall.com/fra-cgur-index.htm

DoD
http://www.foxfall.com/fra-dodu.htm

[Ben Shotalot]

GJones,

"The Navy, Marine Corps, and Coast Guard regs have a restriction on inter-service wear of ribbons with no equivalent."

While this is true it does not apply to unit awards. The Army has the same thing as well.

Army does not allow:

Navy Rifle Marksmanship Ribbon
Navy Pistol Marksmanship Ribbon
CG Rifle Marksmanship Ribbon
CG Pistol Marksmanship Ribbon
Air Force Small Arms Expert Marksmanship Ribbon
AF Longevity Service Award Ribbon

Navy does not allow:

CG Commandasnt's Letter of Commendation Ribbon
Air Force Combat Readiness Medal
Outstanding Airman of the Year Ribbon
Air Force Recognition Ribbon.

USMC is the most restrictive. They do not allow these:

CG Commandant's Letter of Commendation
CG Bicentennial Unit Commendation
Army NCO Professional Development Ribbon
Army Service Ribbon
Army Reserve Components Overseas Training Ribbon
Air Force Longevity Service Award
Air Force NCO Professional Education Graduate Ribbon
Air Force Basic Military Training Honor Graduate Ribbon
Air Force Small Arms Expert Marksmanship Ribbon
Air Force Training Ribbon
Navy Rifle Marksmanship Ribbon
Navy Pistol Marksmanship Ribbon
CG Rifle Marksmanship Ribbon
CG Pistol Marksmanship Ribbon

The Coast Guard says "no" to these:

Army NCO Professional Development Ribbon
Army Service Ribbon
Air Force Training Ribbon
Air Force NCO Professional Education Graduate Ribbon
Outstanding Airman of the Year Ribbon
Air Force Recognition Ribbon
Air Force Combat Readiness Medal
Air Force Longevity Service Award
Air Force Small Arms Expert Marksmanship Ribbon
Navy Rifle Marksmanship Ribbon
Navy Pistol Marksmanship Ribbon

The Air Force say "no" to these:

Ummmm, there are no specific Restrictions in the Air Force Uniform or Award Regulations.

In general; with the Army, USMC, Navy and the CG, if another service's award does not have a direct equivalent to thier service, then the individual can not wear it. Unit awards do with the only exception of the CG Bicentennial Unit Commendation which was given out to all personnel who served during the Bicentennial year. That really does not make it a "unit" award and is a one time award which will never be given out again.

Something else to note: A soldier who has earned a "Combat Badge" has to 'trade in' for the Combat Action Ribbon when he transfer to the USMC.

[gjones]

Ben,
Good info. Thanks for straightening me out.

[pingjocky]

Navy does not allow:

CG Commandasnt's Letter of Commendation Ribbon
Air Force Combat Readiness Medal
Outstanding Airman of the Year Ribbon
Air Force Recognition Ribbon

Here's the full list of "other service stuff" not authorized on the Navy uniform. Ben gave it a good start, but was lacking a few...sorry.

# Air Force Small Arms Expert Marksmanship Ribbon
# Air Force Combat Readiness Medal
# Air Force Recognition Ribbon
# Air Force Overseas Ribbon (Short Tour)
# Air Force Basic Military Training Honor Graduate Ribbon
# Air Force Training Ribbon
# Air Force Outstanding Airman of the Year Ribbon
# Air Force Longevity Service Award Ribbon
# Air Force NCO Professional Military Educational Graduate Ribbon
# Army NCO Professional Development Ribbon
# Army Service Ribbon
# Coast Guard Expert Shot Medal
# Coast Guard Commandant Letter of Commendation Ribbon
# Coast Guard Gold Medal for Outstanding Achievement
# Coast Guard Restricted Duty Ribbon
# Coast Guard Basic Training Honor Graduate Ribbon
# Coast Guard Bicentennial Unit Commendation
# Coast Guard Gold Medal for Outstanding Achievement
# Valorous Unit Award
# All State issued awards

R/
Pingjocky

[Ben Shotalot]

Ouch! LOL!

I guess I missed a few! I forgot about State ribbons. And what Valorus Unit Award? Coast Guard?

[John Asendorf]

"All state issued awards"???? Does that mean all state issued **unit** awards or all state issued awards? I'm assuming the latter.

Ouch.

Well, this is going to also give me the impetus to fix that nagging problem as well then. This is going to mean altering every state ribbon_set as well. Meh.

I might need to break this down into two separate topics. One for "you can't wear that on your uniform" and this unit commendation topic.

BTW, I am working on this, just because no one can see the work I'm doing doesn't mean it's not being done!

[PA-SGT]

For the Air force you can not wear any state awards if you are in a title 10 status (Active duty), but that is just a nice to know thing. Since most of the people that have the state awards probably won't be going back to the full time Air Force..

PA-Sgt

[Ben Shotalot]

State awards, unit or otherwise, can not be worn on the uniform when you are "federalized", IE: Title 10. When I go for my official DA photo I have to take them off as well as any unit awards that are not "permanent" wear items for me.

I guess you will have to let the individual firgure out what he can and can not wear when he builds his rack here. Unless some SERIOUS code writing is going on behind the curtain!

[Ben Shotalot]

To make things more confusing......

When a National Guard person transfers to another state, the guard awards for the state do not transfer, right? I have the green with white stripe ribbon that you get based on your BEPD and you get one for every 5 years. I think that one goes away if I transfer to another state.

But, I have the LA Emergency (bright yellow) ribbon for Katrina and that will go with me because it is a personal award and not a "service" award thing, right? I wear it now but I am in the Washington State Army National Guard.

And...... Does the LA ribbon have precedence over my other state awards? Does it go by "current state" over other states? Or by ranking of the award itself IE: Another state's MOH over current state achievement awards?

I know that all the state unit awards rate behind the federal unit awards.

[pingjocky]

I guess I missed a few! I forgot about State ribbons. And what Valorus Unit Award? Coast Guard?

Don't sweat it, it happens to the best of us. To the best of my knowledge, the CG does not have a "Valorous Unit Award," HOWEVER, the AF did just create one. My bet is that on the list, it is referring to the Air Force Valorous Unit Award, and it got stuck on the end of the list instead of getting put with the rest of the AF stuff. Just a guess....

R/
Pingjocky

[Ben Shotalot]

You know I just noticed that the Navy/MC PUC is not up! Was it ever?